tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5854140391172903738.post2238401144566350329..comments2020-02-17T12:26:49.601-05:00Comments on The Ecumethodist: Is Unity Realistic?Paul Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16771814142319521408noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5854140391172903738.post-79716069914044828242010-04-14T11:48:53.835-04:002010-04-14T11:48:53.835-04:00Your question is a big one, Jon, and I'm not s...Your question is a big one, Jon, and I'm not sure I can do it justice outside of a longer conversation. But here are my thoughts:<br /><br />From a perspective outside the Christian community of faith, the distinction between "Spirit" and "human effort" doesn't make much sense. After all, the belief in the presence of God's Spirit is very much bound up in the life of the community.<br /><br />But from within a Christian narration of the world, the distinction between the Spirit and human effort is rooted in two key observations about the world:<br /><br />1) In spite of our ability to sense the good and how things "ought" to be, human beings (and the world) are helplessly mired in destructive cycles of violence and selfishness. <br /><br />2) God has intervened in human history (most clearly in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus) in order to bring new life out of violence and love out of selfishness for humanity and the world.<br /><br />For Christians, then, it is God's Spirit who brings new life and enables human beings to love. It is the Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead and brings new life to human beings. Certainly, human beings may participate in this "saving" work of God - but only as a response, not as an initiative. All efforts to work for the good that are grounded in human effort are destined for failure (see #1) because of human pride and selfishness. It is God's Spirit, working through the Christian community (and outside it?), who enables human beings to achieve the good, or how things ought to be. <br /><br />So (back to your question), how can human beings NOT rely on themselves, if in fact they are called to participate in God's work in the world? We embody a posture of humility that is open to receiving and responding to what God's Spirit is already doing. Within the Christian community, certain practices help to foster such a posture - prayer, Scripture, and sacrament (Morgan, this where I really appreciate your observation about the importance of prayer). It is in these places that Christians encounter God already present in our lives and in the world, and are empowered by the same Spirit to participate in God's work of love and new life.<br /><br />The distinction between human action on its own and Spirit filled human action makes all the difference for Christians. It is God working, not us. This is what makes new life possible - for suffering individuals, for the divided Church, and for a broken world.Paul Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16771814142319521408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5854140391172903738.post-53669387419807278712010-04-13T19:23:43.582-04:002010-04-13T19:23:43.582-04:00Two main things come to mind when I think about Ch...Two main things come to mind when I think about Christian unity. First, Paul's words in Romans 14 when he addresses the topic of eating meat (or not). Of course, it is ok to eat meat. Paul is clear about Christian freedom. BUT he instructs that our concern for our (weaker) Christian brothers overrules personal freedom, and says, "If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love....Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification" (vs.15a, 19). Paul addresses this issue again and again in his letters, highlighting the importance of unity--or, love. It seems that our love for each other is the priority, and that's where unity stems from. However, the frequency of Paul's comments on this topic do more than show its importance--they also shed some light on how difficult a practice it is. If Christians were loving each other and united all the time, he wouldn't have to mention it so often. They were fighting over vegetarianism, for goodness' sake!<br /><br />The second thing that comes to mind when I think about unity are some words from the Book of Common Prayer. The lines are from "A Prayer for all Conditions of Men," and read, "we pray for they holy Church universal; that it may be so guided and governed by thy good Spirit, that all who profess and call themselves Christians may be led into the way of truth, and hold the faith IN UNITY OF SPIRIT, in the bond of peace, and in righteousness of life." This prayer is from the daily morning and evening office, so obviously it was something considered important enough to pray for often.<br /><br />And so, as much of a cop-out as it is, part of the answer to unity is that we pray. We must make unity enough of a priority that we desire to take the time to pray for it.morgan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01653816109555416633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5854140391172903738.post-85083579588215274912010-04-13T09:23:36.878-04:002010-04-13T09:23:36.878-04:00@Derek - I love that you pointed that out.
Paul, ...@Derek - I love that you pointed that out.<br /><br />Paul, I finally got around to reading this post after our discussion last night. I understand that it's geared more toward Christians, but what (to you) is the difference between "human strength alone" vs. the help of the "spirit"?<br /><br />I never really got this; how do you *not* do things on your own? How can you *not* rely on yourself if you need to do something or work toward a goal? Is this the supplement of prayer or hoping for the best?<br /><br />Obviously this isn't the question of this post, but I'm not asking facetiously; I'm interested in your thoughts on the question.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757532744009421008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5854140391172903738.post-86403143383485893342010-04-12T12:51:11.073-04:002010-04-12T12:51:11.073-04:00Ha, thanks for the clarification, Derek. The post...Ha, thanks for the clarification, Derek. The post has been amended!Paul Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16771814142319521408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5854140391172903738.post-15704149538399848502010-04-12T11:44:28.122-04:002010-04-12T11:44:28.122-04:00Just to clarify, I did not post that on Paul's...Just to clarify, I did not post that on Paul's wall specifically, as if nobody cared about his blog in particular. I was just commenting on the blog-phenomenon in general. =;o)<br />-DerekAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com